[Milva McDonald]: Welcome to the August 7, 2024 meeting of the Medford Charter Study Ethics Reporting Subcommittee. First, did you look over the minutes from our last meeting? Yeah, move approval. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Great. Basically, What we have to do tonight, right? I mean, Eunice, I don't know if you have any thoughts, but we basically have to come up with, well, here's the question. Are we going to come up with the language? Because we also can just come up with the parameters and then let the call-in center do the language. We can do that too. We can give to the call-in center, okay, this is what we want, this is how we want it to work, etc., and then they'll write it.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, I guess I'm a little, so we've established that we want an ethics commission.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, technically the committee voted just for the annual financial reporting. Okay. But we also in that discussion, there didn't seem to be a great desire to use the state form.
[Eunice Browne]: Right. And I would, I would, you know, caution against using the state for right now. I think it needs to be more targeted.
[Milva McDonald]: So, for the purpose of the charter, the only way to handle that. We have to task somebody with the creation of the form. So, it's either going to be an ethics commission or the city council. Because the city council is going to write the ordinance.
[Eunice Browne]: So, if the city council is writing the ordinance. Then. Are they not establishing the who, what, and where of the commission?
[Milva McDonald]: No. What we can do in the charter if we want to create an ethics commission is lay out the parameters for the commission in the charter and say that the mayor will instruct the city council to create an ordinance to implement that. But we can say in the charter, ethics commission, the composition of that commission, the qualifications, how long they serve, who appoints, what their basic tasks are, and which at this point, it's just the annual financial reporting, right? So we can do that in the charter, right? Or, I mean, Framingham doesn't do that because they basically say, they don't say that they'll use the state form, but they say something substantially similar to the state form, so they're just using the state form. Right, exactly. But since we don't want to do that, we have to provide for the creation of a form.
[Eunice Browne]: I mean, I'm all for, and I've said it all along, telling the city council what needs to happen so that the less we leave to them, the happier I am. Right.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, I don't think we can dictate the content. We can't dictate the contents of the form. That's going to be up to either the city council or the ethics commission if we choose. We didn't technically vote on that with the whole committee, we have to have a vehicle for the creation of the form.
[Eunice Browne]: Right. So yeah, I think it makes sense to have, you know, the commission and my recommendation would be, um, you know, and this is just to kind of answer your first set of questions, um, and thinking a little bit out loud here, um, uh, either three or five members, um, being a resident of Medford, a registered voter. The one thing that the State Ethics Commission does that is interesting, and I think they're a five-member group, but they require that no more than, uh, and we can adjust this based on our numbers, um, is no more. I think there is, since there are five member, no more than two members shall be from the democratic party. No more than two shall be from the Republican party so that they ensure that there's some, you know, um, What's the word I want it's been a long day variety of, you know, and I've suggested that, you know, with other boards too, which doesn't seem to go over well, not as the chip is what you're saying, right?
[Milva McDonald]: But city politics are all nonpartisan, like the elections have to be nonpartisan. So I don't know if we could put that in the charter. I mean, we'd have to ask if that's.
[Eunice Browne]: I mean, I know that the only board that operates like that, and probably because it has to, is the Elections Commission.
[Milva McDonald]: So you're saying that the election, so is the, I'm not, do you know how the Elections Commission is, is there an ordinance creating it or is it a state law? I'm not quite sure. Yeah, I don't know either. But you're saying that the Elections Commission is, specifies that members will be.
[Maury Carroll]: If I can jump in.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Wait, Maury, you're on mute.
[Maury Carroll]: It used to be that all boards, they could not be, let's say it was a three-member board, that all three members were from a declared party. It always had to be, if it was two or one, and I've never seen where that has changed. Now, if it's, there's a difference of what it's supposed to be to how it really is, as we all know. So, because this is really like all municipalities from what I understand with the exception maybe of Boston or like Springfield or Worcester, that it's just like everybody's that large. But there are specific rules to all bodies that there can be no more than a majority of 2 to 1 or 3 to 2, but it can't be 5 to 0 or 3 to 0 and so forth. That's the rule of thumb, and I believe that's the rule of the law. Did I make myself clear enough on that?
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, no, makes sense. I just, you know, like you say, you know how it's supposed to be and how it is.
[Maury Carroll]: Well, you know that reinventing the wheel, right?
[Eunice Browne]: I mean, you're looking at our board. In and of itself, I would venture to guess that most of the group leans 1 way. I don't know.
[Maury Carroll]: I never looked at this way. I looked at every member of this body as being concerned about the city and trying to push the city in the right direction.
[Eunice Browne]: I think if you look at almost any board that's active in the city, I think you'll see. leaning one way. But I can tell you, looking at the Elections Commission, there used to be four members on it. There are currently three, two from the Democratic Party, one from the Republican Party. They have been looking for- And who's the chair? Doesn't name them as the chair.
[Maury Carroll]: Right. Because the chair is generally the person that's the department head. I think there is a one right now. If I was to guess, I'm probably wrong.
[Milva McDonald]: They work with the elections department.
[Maury Carroll]: I don't think that concerns us here what we're trying to do. Right. Let's move forward and go on. OK. I think if I can put my two cents in, you know, it's not to kick you in the ass or anything else like that. It's just that I think we're trying to go. We're trying to reinvent the wheel with this ethics thing. You know, I think we can put the parameters in of what we're looking to do. But I don't think the charter says you can dictate it. And I don't know how right or wrong I am, Bill.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, you remember, anything we put in the charter is caught, it's set in stone. So if it doesn't work out, it can't be changed. So, you know, that's one of the reasons we want to be careful.
[Maury Carroll]: I understand what Eunice is bringing to the forefront, and it's very important. that we know who these people are, that we're entrusting them as our representatives, whether I'm a radical or whether I'm, you know, not, and that all voices get to be heard. Now, how do we, as a body, tie this all into satisfying everything? And that I'm not entirely sure of.
[Milva McDonald]: First of all, let's say, do we three or five? I feel like three is probably enough. I mean, Springfield has three. I think, um, I'm always a five, seven guy, but I mean, if you guys say three, okay, let's just say three or five. And then as we go, when we get to talking about what they're actually going to do and we can see, okay, does this really need five people? Okay.
[Eunice Browne]: So we'll say three or five. I, I, I lean more towards the five because, uh, three to me is depending upon how much work there is to do and, you know, life getting in the way. Um, you know, having that fourth and fifth person, I think is better. Okay.
[Maury Carroll]: So if I can jump, I like five too, cause it gives you the opportunity to make sure you have enough roundabout.
[Milva McDonald]: people okay let's say five and there have to be five volunteers you know they also have to find five volunteers that want to do it so um okay medford voter um any other qualification i mean in terms of their other qualifications
[Maury Carroll]: I'd say resident, not resident.
[Milva McDonald]: If they're a voter, they have to be a resident.
[Maury Carroll]: Not necessarily. There's a lot of residents that aren't registered to vote.
[Milva McDonald]: No, I mean, if they're a voter, they have to be a resident.
[Maury Carroll]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[Milva McDonald]: So you're saying you think you should be a resident, and whether they're registered to vote or not is immaterial.
[Maury Carroll]: No, I'm saying register to vote first because they're automatically a resident. Right, right. Okay. So voter. A non-city employee.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. No city employees or relatives or elected officials will say that. That would be my next part. Or relatives of the same.
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Milva McDonald]: You know, I mean, let's say, like, we don't get paid, right? Or a lot of people who are on volunteer boards.
[Maury Carroll]: Oh, you guys aren't getting paid?
[Milva McDonald]: A lot of people who are on boards or commissions don't get paid, but I think they might still be considered city employees.
[Maury Carroll]: I'm not sure how that works. If you're not being paid, you're not an employee.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know though, because remember when we, even the members of the boards and the commissions have to take the ethics training and we talked about that. Oh yeah, but that doesn't, yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: So anyway, I don't know, I think that that could be ambiguous. If you're a stipend on the committee, are you being paid?
[Milva McDonald]: Right, but I'm just saying, I think it could be ambiguous that there's certain, but you know, that just means that you can't, do both. But one question I have is, no city employees are elected officials or relatives of the same. That means that as soon as you're not an employee anymore, you can serve on this board. Or do we want a window of time?
[Maury Carroll]: That's a good point. If you want a window of time, just like we're telling everybody else, you have to sit out for a year before you can run for another office or whatever the term is. Right. Use the language. That's state law. that the state of Los Angeles.
[Eunice Browne]: We're in the charter for that, so we can just replicate it.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. How long do we want them to serve?
[Eunice Browne]: I would say either a two-year or a three-year term.
[Maury Carroll]: That's a most committee terms.
[Milva McDonald]: It's three years too long. Well, people go, that's too long. I don't know.
[Maury Carroll]: I don't know. I'd go, why don't we go two years, see where it goes.
[Milva McDonald]: Let's say two years. Um, should we say two years with the option of, you know, and, uh, terms maybe for a second term, right.
[Maury Carroll]: For one time only. Right, right, right. Okay. We're doing with everything else.
[Milva McDonald]: Renewal one time only.
[Maury Carroll]: Are you good with that? You guys?
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, what about the appointing?
[Eunice Browne]: The mayor will be the appointing authority.
[Milva McDonald]: You don't think we should mix it up?
[Maury Carroll]: I think we should mix it up. Yeah, just like we had talked earlier, forget the school committee on this one, but a council appointee, so they have it almost like the way they do, I think, the whole ML committee, that the council has a person they put in, the mayor has a person they put in, and then there's somebody like that.
[Milva McDonald]: I did notice that some of the other cities that have ethics commissions have the school committee appointing one member.
[Maury Carroll]: Okay. Let's do it.
[Eunice Browne]: I think so. I think Paulette's brought up the point a few times where the school committee has been pushed to the side. Don't forget the mayor, two by the city council, one by the school committee.
[Milva McDonald]: That sounds fine to me.
[Maury Carroll]: But don't forget, going back to what Eunice just said, the school committee has one specific role, one specific role only. That's kind of why they have their own little niche to deal with. The city council and the mayor have the whole 360 to deal with. That's why, you know, and I've been very quiet on that.
[Milva McDonald]: I agree. So we'll do 2-2-1 for now. We can always go back and revisit this. So what about the responsibilities?
[Eunice Browne]: Um, just to stay with this for a minute, I'm just Springfield's ethics commission. Um, and it says, um, no member or employee of the commissioner shall hold or be a candidate for any public office while a member or employee, or for one year thereafter. Um, uh, Oh, it's in November.
[Maury Carroll]: I understand that kind of language. That's good protective language. So, I mean, it's kind of what we're saying. You can't jump in from one committee and get to sit outside for a year or whatever, what we were saying a little bit before.
[Eunice Browne]: And then no members shall hold office in any. Political party or political committee, so you can't be like, you know, the state rep for, you know, Republican state committee person. Or you can't be, you know. Ward person for the word.
[Maury Carroll]: I think that's great language and maybe we should say it's covering their tail.
[Milva McDonald]: Wait a minute. So let me find that. Springfield. Springfield.
[Eunice Browne]: What page? Page seven. Top of page seven.
[Adam Hurtubise]: 5, 6, 7. Yeah.
[Eunice Browne]: Springfield might be a pretty good model for us. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. But that's a manual. We're not creating a manual.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, but some of the parameters are what we're looking to do.
[Maury Carroll]: So in other words, what we're trying to say is the members of this committee have to have have to live under these guidelines. Their parameters are they can't be connected to this or that or associated with this and so forth. And who the individual has to be. Am I right of our own units?
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Well, so, you know, I mean, participating in or contributing to the political campaign of any candidate for public office, that's any candidate for public office means anybody.
[Maury Carroll]: I don't have the language in front of me.
[Milva McDonald]: Here, I'll put it up on the screen. I'm not going to read it.
[Maury Carroll]: Do you guys know me?
[Milva McDonald]: That means if you give $25 to the president.
[Maury Carroll]: If I give $50 to Milva Runny for state rep, I shouldn't be locked out of it.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, I mean, that means that you can't give to the presidential campaign. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: You know, they're invisible. Yeah. Take that out. What else, Melva?
[Milva McDonald]: OK, let's see.
[Maury Carroll]: Let's go.
[Milva McDonald]: Hold or be a candidate for any other public office while a member or employee for or for one year thereafter. Do we want to leave the one year thereafter?
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I think that's reasonable.
[Maury Carroll]: I don't have a problem one way or the other. If that's what you guys want to do, that's fine with me. Whatever you guys want to do on that one.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, like I said, this is not going to be changeable. And if it turns out they're not getting volunteers, I might regret that.
[Maury Carroll]: 60,000 people, you're going to get volunteers.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, yeah, we'll see. Hold office in any political party or political committee, which
[Maury Carroll]: I'm in favor of that. Rather keep it as neutral as we can.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah, I would stick with, I would keep that one.
[Eunice Browne]: You know, so you can't be like the state committee person or you can't be serving on the Democratic board committee.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, like I said, when we start talking about what the Ethics Commission is going to do, then we'll see. Because if the Ethics Commission is just administering the form, and they don't, I mean, yeah, then I don't see that this is that important, but we'll talk about it. And the other one is the contribution, which we're not going to include. Yeah, we can fix that. Okay. Okay.
[Maury Carroll]: I think when we present it to the committee, I think we should tell them this is what we didn't include. In other words, contributions, whatever. It might be kind of like showing validity of what we're doing here.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, I mean, my thought was I was gonna take what we came up with tonight, give it to the call-in center, ask them to write it up, and then give that to the committee. And we can talk to them about some of the other things too, but.
[Maury Carroll]: Oh, we can wait and see if it comes up.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Okay. Okay, so that's composition, qualifications, appointing. Okay, what about what they're actually gonna do? Now, one of the things we know they're gonna do is, create the form because that's the whole point and that's what the committee voted on is to have an annual financial reporting requirement.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Right.
[Milva McDonald]: They're going to have to create the form and then they would be who the people who have to fill out the form submit the forms to. They're responsible for that, right?
[Maury Carroll]: Right.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, so. But that's a pretty neutral job.
[Eunice Browne]: Create the form, distribute the form, collect the forms. Yeah, and make sure like. Ensure compliance.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, ensure compliance with the requirement. So this section of the charter would also say that there's an annual reporting requirement. annual financial reporting requirements. Part of the problem with us doing it this way, I think, is they can put anything they want in that form. It can be anything. We have no control over it.
[Maury Carroll]: So are you suggesting we create the form?
[Milva McDonald]: No, I don't think the form should go in the charter. All I'm saying is, unless we, like, that's why Framingham's charter says a form substantially similar to the state. So that says, that gives an idea. But if we're saying... I like that.
[Maury Carroll]: It gets you off the hook. yet it puts you within the guidelines of what the form should look like, and then that word similar should mean anything.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. Let's just say if we do that, we don't necessarily need the ethics permission.
[Maury Carroll]: It's like you're protecting your henhouse. A little bit. It just puts people on notice that, OK, we have this commission. Now, I understand what you're saying, Nova, and you're 100% correct that we may not need that. But it's like a second level.
[Milva McDonald]: I guess. I like gloves. So instead of the city clerk, because that's what Framingham does.
[Maury Carroll]: Before I betray you, I don't trust the city clerk.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Well, no, no, no.
[Maury Carroll]: Not this personal one. The job description. Who's he hired by?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah. Right.
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah. I'm not talking about Adam. I'm not talking about Joe.
[Milva McDonald]: And the previous set of one, this is a framing him language and it basically gives it, it's pretty long. Actually. I don't think ours is going to be this long, but I don't know. Um, It basically just says that the city clerk is going to do it. See, we need to figure this out too. The next question is who's going to have to do this form?
[Maury Carroll]: I was just going to say, if you stop putting this on the city clerk's office, he's going to, I won't say that word, he's going to crook.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay.
[Maury Carroll]: Put it in the council's handbook how they want to distribute it.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, they're going to have to create the ordinance.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly. That's what I'm saying.
[Milva McDonald]: But we're telling them what the ethics commission is going to be made up of, but we also have to give an idea of what this ethics commission is going to do. It is going to oversee the ethics reporting requirement, And if we do the line that Framingham uses.
[Maury Carroll]: So in other words, are you suggesting on this document that the city clerk oversees the chairperson of the ethics?
[Milva McDonald]: No, if we do an ethics commission, we're leaving the city clerk out of it.
[Maury Carroll]: Then it would fall back on the chairperson or the chair of the ethics commission.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, it's up to the commission.
[Maury Carroll]: Well, that's what we're saying. How do you want to do it?
[Milva McDonald]: Well, I was just saying if we're just going to say that they're using the state form, then we don't have to have an ethics commission.
[Maury Carroll]: Now, I like the idea at this commission. Also, let me go a step further, that the city clerk maybe works hand in hand with the chairperson of the Ethics Commission, but it's not really involved in it. In other words, that's the last scenario for these two to get together and say, this is what we're doing.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. I don't know if we should dictate that.
[Maury Carroll]: So the city clerk can't complain that he or she is being overburdened by a ton of work.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know if we should dictate that in the charter because again, then it has to be that way and it might not work out. If we have the Ethics Commission, then we just say the Ethics Commission shall do all this. This is what it says about the form in Framingham. It says, The statement of financial interests filed pursuant to the provisions of the section shall be on a form prescribed by the city clerk, and in our case, it would be by the Ethics Commission, that shall be substantially similar to that required by the State Ethics Commission.
[Eunice Browne]: But I don't think we want something substantially similar to the state form, because I mean, it's too intrusive.
[Milva McDonald]: We don't have to, but that means we have no control over what's in the form. We just say it's a... statement of financial interest. They can put whatever they want. They can do it however they see fit, which is fine. I'm just making the point that we're not creating the form.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah. I mean, hopefully, and I know Maury chuckled at this at our last meeting, but hopefully they will do the research that we've done. to find, you know, they'll find other communities that do this and realize that the state form is, you know, too over the top. And, you know, as I said, I recommend the Cambridge form as being more targeted. I couldn't find the forms for the other one.
[Milva McDonald]: It's right, it's right, hang on a minute, let me just find it, because I know, I know we have it.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, we do. I think subcommittee folder. Right here. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, it's just one. Right. But, you know, and you have to figure out what you're, you know, I mean, there's all this stuff about, in which case you don't have to include it. you know, transacting business in Cambridge.
[Eunice Browne]: I don't know. It's Cambridge-centric. I mean, it's just... Right.
[Milva McDonald]: But somebody, I think somebody at our meeting said something about, well, so if you own stock in AT&T, you have to report it. And so maybe you wouldn't have to on a Medford-centric form, but that doesn't mean that an outside, a business outside Medford wouldn't be doing business in Medford.
[Eunice Browne]: If AT&T is doing business in Medford and you have stock in AT&T, then yes. But if you have stock in AT&T and AT&T has nothing to do with Medford, no.
[Milva McDonald]: The form has to lay it all out clearly. I looked at this form and I was like, man, if I had to fill this out, I might hire somebody to help me figure it out, to figure out what I'm supposed to report and what I'm not supposed to report. Because some of it, it's hard to know.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah. It's better than the state form, in my opinion.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. I think the committee wasn't interested in the state form either.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, I think, unfortunately, as much as I don't like the idea, I think we're going to have to leave some of this up to the commission. Right. So statement of, you know, they're responsible for creating a statement of financial disclosure, administering it, ensure, you know, distributing it, ensuring compliance, all of that.
[Milva McDonald]: However, is the, is it really only the first ethics commission that has to create the form?
[Eunice Browne]: Probably, but they may future commissions may choose to revise the form, right?
[Milva McDonald]: Create and maintain. Right the form so basically that's what they're doing. Are we putting any details about that? I don't know what details we could put in, but.
[Eunice Browne]: I don't think that we can I think that we just have to, you know. much as I dislike it, take a leap of faith here that they're going to do some due diligence. Yeah. If they're appointed to this committee, they're going to sit around the table the first night and say, okay, we have to create a statement of financial disclosure. What is that and where do other communities must do this? Let's find out so we're not reinventing the wheel.
[Milva McDonald]: They're going to create and maintain a statement of financial disclosure, and we're going to require this annually? Mm-hmm. Who is filling it out?
[Eunice Browne]: I would say, I mean, it was talk about candidates and electeds. Somerville only does electeds. They do other, the department heads and things too, but you're talking about the political part. Somerville only does electeds and not a candidate, so I think I would go with that.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. I mean, I'm fine with that. To me, if somebody really cared, they might want to know before they voted for somebody. But at the same time, you know, this form, people are gonna fill it out and it's just gonna be information that the public can see.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I think, you know, as we kind of talked about, it's more for transparency and optics.
[Milva McDonald]: Right, but what is it being transparent of other than people's financial situation?
[Eunice Browne]: Somebody that might have an interest in something that might influence how they you know, manage the business of that, whether it's be voting on it, or if it's, you know.
[Milva McDonald]: Right, but they're not, so they're supposed to, you know, they're supposed to follow the conflict of interest law and recuse themselves or report. So that, you know, this maybe is going to make them more likely to do that.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I think, you know, as I think we talked about the last time is that. Going, you know, bringing something up to the ethics commission of the conflict of, you know, or a potential conflict of interest. It's the honest system. where if a big development's going up in Medford Square and I have an interest in it or it's my next-door neighbor that's pushing for this or my brother-in-law or something like that, Ideally, I should go before the ethics. If I don't already know that I shouldn't be touching this, ideally, I should be going to the Ethics Commission and disclosing it and then being told whether or not I should be.
[Milva McDonald]: You're talking about the State Ethics Commission. Right. But our Ethics Commission is not going to have that power.
[Eunice Browne]: They're just collecting information. Right. But what I'm saying is, if my brother-in-law has an interest in a development going up in Medford Square, ideally, I should be going to the ethics commission and disclosing that and letting them determine whether or not I should be supporting and voting on it, whatever. But if nobody knows that my brother-in-law is involved in this, then... But let's say that, you know... Right, but we don't know if the forum is going to cover brother-in-laws. Well... Assuming it is. I don't know. Then Milva comes along and says, geez, I think Eunice seems to be really pushing that development in Medford Square. Somebody told me her brother was involved in it. I think I'll go check out the statement of ethics or statement of financial disclosure. And lo and behold, I have an interest in it. I think it's transparency.
[Milva McDonald]: It's transparency in the sense that it's going to make people's financial situation visible to anybody in the city.
[Eunice Browne]: If there's a connection between your financial business and Medford.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. But as I said, what if you don't just close your AT&T stock and then all of a sudden AT&T is doing business in Medford and you didn't know that? I mean, figuring out. It's going to reveal information to people who want to look at it, basically. But what we're talking about is, while we were talking about the powers of the commission. So far, the only power of the commission that we have is to create and maintain the statement of financial disclosure and to ensure that it gets filled out every year by the people who are supposed to fill it.
[Eunice Browne]: That's what Framingham does. Right.
[Milva McDonald]: That's all the Ethics Commission is going to do.
[Eunice Browne]: I mean, Somerville and Springfield think it was Springfield that had lobbying and stuff in it. You know, I don't know how much of that is done here. Maybe they do more because they have a casino out there. I don't know. I didn't happen to notice, I can't remember offhand what Somerville's did.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, let's just say that we're going to mention the form and any other such duties as may be prescribed by ordinance. Yeah. Okay. So electives. We don't want candidates.
[Eunice Browne]: I would say, Electeds, department heads?
[Milva McDonald]: There's a lot of department heads. Do we want all of them? I don't know. I'd want to see a list of department heads before we put department heads in. Because I feel like some of them, it's not really necessary. They're not voting. They're not voting on anything. Like the health department, does really the health department head have to fill this out? I think most of the others indicate department heads.
[Adam Hurtubise]: which is what she means.
[Maury Carroll]: Framingham is the- I think department heads only if they're connected to maybe an individual looking for a position.
[Milva McDonald]: Framingham says superintendent, chief financial officer, chief procurement officer, chief operating officer, public works directors, or any other municipal officers as may from time to time be designated by ordinance.
[Maury Carroll]: Works for me, but I think we're getting too deep into this. I mean, I just, I think we're trying to reinvent the wheel here. We're trying to cross every single T and dot every single I of every scenario that could possibly happen. That's not our job. It's not. And you know, I'm not going to support an action like this, that we're going to dissect every individual thing that- I agree. I'm not going to support it. I'm going to tell you right now, Eunice, you can keep going on and on and trying to dig and dig and dig. You don't have my vote on this. It's gone too far. OK.
[Milva McDonald]: So let's look at Framingham. But I don't know what a chief procurement officer is. Do we have one?
[Unidentified]: Yeah, we have one of those. We have one.
[Milva McDonald]: OK. And chief operating officer?
[Maury Carroll]: I'm not sure if we have one or not. I don't think we do, because that's the thing.
[Milva McDonald]: All right, I'll leave that one out. Or when I give the list to the Collins. Okay. So, um, well, then maybe just filling it out every year. Is there just a particular time of year that we should, you know, we have to say when.
[Maury Carroll]: City Council takes office the first week of January, give them two months or three months, they get their stuff in order. I think it's February 28th.
[Milva McDonald]: Framingham has it due on May 1st of each year.
[Maury Carroll]: I would do February 28th or March 31st, whatever you want to do. I don't have a problem with any of that. I just have a problem. We're digging too deep here. We're getting too finite and we're trying to reinvent the wheel here. I see your point. No, it's gone too far, gone on too long. I'm going to make my statement how I feel. I'm sorry.
[Milva McDonald]: That's okay. February 28th, we like that date. March 1st. March 1st, okay. I mean, okay, that's fine.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Okay.
[Maury Carroll]: To be one day over every four years and you have a, what's the difference?
[Milva McDonald]: I think that's most of the questions that we needed to, what about the, and in terms of the actual information that's collected, the commission, Keeps the forms on file and makes them available to any member of the public or do we not want them to be made available to any member of the public?
[Eunice Browne]: No, I think that's kind of the whole point of this is that, you know, they're available to the public, you know, upon request.
[Maury Carroll]: Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: And we're saying that the members of the Ethics Commission will receive no compensation, right?
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, so this is what we have. Five-member Ethics Commission, no compensation, Medford voter. I have Ringfield member, okay. I don't have it in front of me right now. But whatever Springfield said that we talked about, I haven't written down, but where I have to look for it. No city employees or elected officials. No current city employees or elected officials, and they have to wait a year before they can serve, and no relatives.
[Maury Carroll]: I got candidates who are in there also.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay.
[Maury Carroll]: Am I wrong?
[Milva McDonald]: No, no, that's good. That's fine.
[Maury Carroll]: Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: They serve for two years. They can renew their term one time only. Two are appointed by the mayor, two by the city council, one by the school committee. They can't hold office with any political party or political committee Which again as we've discussed I don't really see that it makes a difference for this particular job because all they're doing is collecting the forms exactly But yeah, we could we could take that out Okay, I put a question mark there and I They have to create and maintain a statement of financial disclosure to be filled out by elected officials and the people that we just discussed.
[Maury Carroll]: Not filled out, submitted to, right? Submitted to the elected officials or the committee, right? Well- Filled out. Why would someone else be filling out their forms?
[Milva McDonald]: Well, no, the Ethics Commission isn't filling it out. They're filling it out and submitting it to the Ethics Commission. The Ethics Commission is just making sure they do it every year. Then we'll say, and any other duties as may be prescribed by ordinance, the forms due on March 1st of each year, and the Elections Commission keeps the forms and makes them available to anyone who wants to see them on request. Because it might be, it might, what if somebody else, what if the mayor wants to see him? Or what if, you know, somebody in another department, I mean, it's anybody, right? It's not just, yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah. They put in a request to see it, so big deal.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. So does that cover it? So, and then what I'll do is I'll write this all in the minutes, so you guys will be able to look at it and see if anything was left out. And then once I, hear from you if there needs to be any changes or if I don't hear from you I'll assume it's okay and then I'll give all this to the call-in center and then the call-in center will write it up and then um I I don't think we need another meeting I mean we'll they'll write it up and I'll send it to the whole committee and then if anybody has changes including us we can just bring it up at the next meeting.
[Maury Carroll]: Bring it up at the September meeting. Here it is.
[Eunice Browne]: Does that sound like we covered everything? Yes. I just have one quick question. The who part, who is filling out these disclosure forms? What I had on my list, and I think to Maury's point, getting too much into the weeds, but I just want to make sure that if we're not getting too into the weeds that we at least leave it open to be this way, what I would want, if it were my druthers, would be electeds, department heads, the super, and any members of a multi-member board that either were required to have by ordinance or that are responsible for any licensing and permitting. So I recognize that's getting too into the weeds.
[Maury Carroll]: I don't want to go there. I just assume that we keep it the way it is and we present it to the committee with Eunice's recommendations right now and her recommendations and see what the whole committee wants to say. I don't want to answer here right now for the whole committee.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, we'll have the language and then if Eunice wants to bring up an amendment to add, she can.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: So right now, what I have is elected officials, superintendent, chief financial officer, chief procurement officer, public and public works director, and any other municipal officers as may from time to time be designated by ordinance.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly. Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, is there one in particular that you think should be there that's not there, Eunice?
[Eunice Browne]: Not so much with the department heads, but more concerned with the boards.
[Maury Carroll]: We're going to start dissecting the 20 boards with 3, 4, 5, 10 people on it for Christ sakes. Okay. Go ahead, do it if you want it. I'm not voting for it. I'm so close. I'm tired of this. You've been beating on this for months upon months, and it keeps coming back to the committee and then to the whole group. It's going nowhere, Eunice. I understand what you're trying to do, but you know something?
[Milva McDonald]: It's all right, but go ahead if you want to do it if you so units will have it this way and once that once it's written up if you want to propose an amendment and and then the committee can vote on it.
[Eunice Browne]: Exactly. Okay. I'll bring it up on the 1st or the 5th whenever that we're meeting. Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. So. So are we good with the review of what I, I mean, I'm going to give all this to the call center and ask them to write it up. If they say, well, March 1st isn't a good date because of blah, blah, blah, it should be whatever. I mean, I'll just say fine, change it and then we can. Because that was random anyway, right? Yeah. I don't know what else they'll say about what. They might say, well, you should answer this question as well, or yeah, they might have some comments. But they'll let us know just like they did with all the other stuff.
[Maury Carroll]: This is what they do. We're just an ad hoc committee trying to do the best thing for the city that we care about. with the proper recommendations. And if they see something that they say, tweak it like this, and what Eunice is saying, or what Milva is saying, or what anybody else is saying, you shouldn't indoctrinate, let's do it. But they know more about this than we do.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. So, I mean, it is, you know, I do think that it's tricky about the Statement of Financial Disclosure and how to frame that because it's not in any other charters. And the only one that has it specifically references the state form just to give, you know, because otherwise you're just saying Statement of Financial Disclosure and it could mean anything, right? It is a little tricky, but if we don't want to use the state form, then we just have to.
[Eunice Browne]: Let's see. You're taking a leap of faith. Yeah.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I think the state form is the absolute wrong way to go.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't remember if the Cambridge form said anything about relatives. Actually, I don't think it does. Yeah, it's funny because they have the elections commission overseeing the form, not the city clerk like Framingham. They say June 1st. Yeah, so maybe spring is a better time. I don't know why, because Framingham said May.
[Maury Carroll]: I think that all depends on how their charters are, what their fiscal years are and everything. We don't know. And we don't have to copy everybody else. We can be our own person, too.
[Milva McDonald]: No, I know. But I just don't know if there's a reason, like with the sort of calendar.
[Maury Carroll]: I think the Collins Center will tell us that it's too quick or not. Why don't we just establish who we want to be?
[Milva McDonald]: They do say family members in Cambridge. Okay, so I will send this out to you guys before I send it to the call-in center so that, you know, if there's any detail that I got wrong in the minutes, I can correct it before I send it to them.
[Eunice Browne]: Okay? Okay, sounds good.
[Milva McDonald]: All right, do we need to cover anything else?
[Maury Carroll]: No, I think we answered all the questions. No, I'm good. Bring the rest. Awesome. Bring all the recommendations, what we've discussed in front of the whole committee, and let's put this in the rest, please, for Christ's sakes.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, no. Well, the Collins Center is going to write it up, and it's going to be part of our discussion. And if people want to amend it, they can. And then we're going to be finishing in September. We're finishing the charter and then in October, we're going to make sure we finalize the final report.
[Eunice Browne]: Do we have a hard end date for all of our work?
[Milva McDonald]: Well, I want October to be our last meeting, so October, whatever the first Thursday in October is.
[Eunice Browne]: And then, so then once we button everything up, then we give it to the mayor. And then when does it go to the city council? I don't know.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, it's kind of in the mayor's hands. And again, you know, we don't know what kind of role we're going to be asked to play in any of that.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I don't know.
[Milva McDonald]: We'll see. But once we submit it to the mayor.
[Maury Carroll]: So let's get through the call and send her in next month.
[Milva McDonald]: Once we submit it to the mayor. No, we're going to be finished at that October meeting, Maury. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Okay.
[Maury Carroll]: And then the final draft.
[Eunice Browne]: Once it goes to the mayor, once we hand it off to her, the final report and the final draft or the final or the- Mayor has the power of the pen.
[Maury Carroll]: She sends it to the city council, they have more of the power of the pen and we'll see how it rings out through the wash.
[Eunice Browne]: Exactly. When does it go to the public for when are they able to view our work?
[Milva McDonald]: It may not. I'm pretty sure that our final report is going to be made public. I can't imagine that you sat on the parking.
[Maury Carroll]: I'll find a report is public.
[Milva McDonald]: Now, when we submit it- I mean, well, I think it probably is up to the mayor because we're just a, you know, we're the mayor's committee, we're submitting it to the mayor, but I can't imagine- Our committee report is public record.
[Maury Carroll]: So our final public, our final report is public record. Yeah, I can't imagine- What we submit to the mayor is public record. So however it comes out of there, change and then submit it to the city council and their changes, that's all part of it. But our original report is there, just like the parking commission, our original report.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. Yeah, that's like all those final reports that we looked at from all those communities. I can't imagine people aren't going to be able to see that.
[Maury Carroll]: Oh, exactly. They should be.
[Eunice Browne]: I know I've had a few people who've asked me, when will they be able to see a work product? They can come on and watch all our work up to this point. It's all public. Exactly. I said, where have you been for the last two years?
[Milva McDonald]: Go to the website. You can spend hours and hours watching all the meetings.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: You'll be bored into oblivion.
[Maury Carroll]: It's good restroom viewing.
[Eunice Browne]: If you have insomnia, watch a couple of charter meetings. You'll be asleep in a minute.
[Maury Carroll]: You don't need anatomy and watch this.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. Awesome.
[Maury Carroll]: I'm going to make a motion to say good night.
[Milva McDonald]: Awesome. I second. Yeah. Ditto.
[Maury Carroll]: Nice job, you guys.
[Milva McDonald]: Thanks, guys. Thank you. Good night. Take care. Bye.
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